Az., Souther Utah, N.M. class V questions

waynechorter · 02-08-2005

I am trying to find beta on good class V runs in Arizona and New Mexico. I know about everything in the colorado rivers and creeks book but I'm trying to get info on stuff that doesn't get hit so often. I read on the AWA site that the east fork of the verde and the little colorado have some class V sections on them but I can't find any info as to the quality or lengths of these runs. It seems like there must be good stuff around flagstaff, sedona, and the hila mountains but info is very scarce. Anything in southern utah is fair game as well. Anyone with some info they would like to share will be rewarded with excellent boating karma for the season. It's feast or famine in these parts so us southwest boaters gotta feast while we can this year.

El Flaco · 02-08-2005

Here's one to check out: Cibeque Creek. I hear it's quite an adventure as a kayak run, requiring some technical skills and other fun stuff. It's a tributary to the Salt- runs into the day stretch below Hwy 60. So, it probably hasn't run in few years. But it's worth looking over some topos and checking to see who has explored it.

I tried checking into who did the first descent and this is all I've found so far:
http://outside.away.com/outside/dest...arizona_1.html

Some other photos, to get an idea what the riverbed is like:
http://hikearizona.com/photocodeZOOM.php?ID=73&TNI=30

Damn- looking at those photos, I kinda want to plan a trip in March / April. Definitely some portages:
http://hikearizona.com/photocodeZOOM.php?ID=74&TNI=30

Here's some map info - I think you have to put in somewhere around the town of White River. I'm going to email a buddy of mine who guided rafts on the Salt & and try to get some info on the potential of this run. I'll keep everyone updated...

USGS Mule Hoof Bend Quad

stinginrivers · 02-09-2005

I have hiked about 4 miles up cibecue from the salt and it is one of the most amazing places I have ever been. It was a great canyoneering type of hike with 4 major waterfalls to climb up or rappel down which ever way you want to look at it.

If I remember correctly a couple guides I used to work with down there paddled it in 97, they said it was an epic with quite a few major portages. The biggest issue you might run into is I have heard the apache tribe has now closed the creek to anyone unless they have a specific guide with them. You might be able to get through it without the guide but if it is illegal and you get caught it is very serious. Just like running the upper upper salt's class 5 section.

If I were you looking for some good creekin I would head down the salt a bit further and run canyon creek. A sweet boulder choked class 4 creek. that goes into the salt and then paddle a couple miles down to Gleason's flats. Take out there before you head into the wilderness area. Make sure if you do this trip you are fully prepared with 4x4's and supplies because on the shuttle you have to cross cibecue and canyon creek which if running big can add to the excitement level. Also if you are down there and it rains those roads turn into this nasty slippery as ice mud which makes the road basically impassible.

Another fun run not very difficult but very cool is tonto creek.

Have fun and enjoy the desert

Meng · 02-09-2005

On a Salt trip some years back Cibique was pumpin and we hiked up to the big falls to have a look. It definitely seemed to merit more exploring. Boating plans went out the window when we found out that getting caught paddling the creek would land you in prison on the White Mountain Apache Reservation.... not a good thing. The upper Salt looks really really good, but it is also illegal.

Native Americans have lost so much land that I am in no position to challenge or object to the access they allow me on lands they still control.

JJ, I wanna hit the Black Box of the San Rafael in UT this spring if it runs. Dont know a ton about it but that might be one to keep in mind.

badkins · 02-09-2005

I've been thinking a lot about running the Black Box of the San Rafael this year too. Considering utah's snowpack this year it seems pretty much guaranteed to run...

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/rivers/id/1873/

http://climb-utah.com/SRS/lbb.htm

Cutch · 02-09-2005

I've heard that there is a great overnight creek run around Flagstaff. Anyone know any truth to this? I heard it runs in March.

I'd like to do some dessert boating in NM or Ariz fairly soon if anyone is interested. Early March would be sweet.

waynechorter · 02-09-2005

Kyle, Meng, Brian or whoever, I've got spring break from March 4-13 and I'd like to do some desert creeking. I'm doing a 4 day salt trip from the 4--7 and after that I'd like to hit whatever is running. Ya'll should come down and get some shit done with me.

badkins · 02-09-2005

JJ, on the aw pages if the run has been put together with some basic info there should the lat/lon of the put-in and takeout, also if it has an online gauge there will also be the lat/lon of the gauge location, plug that stuff into topozone and you should get an idea about gradient and location.

merry prankster · 02-09-2005

With regards to the San Rafael, it's been running a few times already this year. Mostly from rain during the past couple storms. Essentially, the run is the upper and lower black boxes. Unless you want an epic hike out of the river, it's easiest to go to the dirt roads that come in from 70 east of the swell. It's agreat run, and I'd love to paddle it again. The rapids in there are generally formed from boulder falls and a pretty sievey. I remeber one in the upper that freaked the hell out of me becuase you basically had to get ot of you boat onto a slick boulder with all the water going under it... Anyway, keep an eye on the rain.

Also in Utah and worth checking outis ferron creek and the fremont above Capital reef. I'll put the info on the Aw site this week. Ferron has a class V section (according to guidebook -- I haven't seen it with water) and the fremont has is a fun class IV run with lots of blindness and brush. Of course, it doens't really compair to OBJ, Vallecito or and of the Colorado classics. There are a few other creeks rolling off the wasatch plateau like the left hand fork huntington Seeley, and Cottonwood. (The later is below a reservoir which is pretty empty.)

Now for the bad news. They're all snow melt driven runs, and the snow is up around 11,000 feet. With the exception of the Fremont and Boulder Creek (trib of the escalante). They don;t really get going until later in the Spring. (Like May or June whenever the pack goes isothermal and moves off.) You can check the status of the melt at http://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/snow/snow.cgi.
Finally, the San Rafael isn't a guranteed thing either since Joes Valley reservoir, Huntongton North, and Mill all sit upstream and are pretty dam empty. Last time the San Rafel went was after a couple of years of decent precip so they let a lot of water go by. It's not totally hopeless, but it's also not a gurantee. Send me a message if you want.

Ohh, and it looks like Southern eastern Arizona's gonna get another shot of moisture this weekend.

cosurfgod · 02-09-2005

Jared, I have both you and Jen down for the Salt trip. It looks like we will have 3 rafts and 12 kayakers. Our day to enter the wilderness is March 4th. I have not paddled the Salt and I am getting all my beta from Billy

. Are we planning on launching on the 3rd and running the section above? Should we arrive the 2nd to run shuttle? How many days does it take to run the canyon with lots of surfing? I am just trying to work out the details so I can let our group know. Give me call or talk with Billy.

Thanks,
Taylor
749-1789