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Old 07-08-2012   #21
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 199
Originally Posted by mkashzg
Touché! Very well said! Now I will be happy to pour you a tall glass of shut the fuk up!
Well said Benson! Sorry for the profanity... I tried to edit before sending. Using my small phone because there was someone on my computer when I got there last night.

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Old 07-08-2012   #22
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Gremlin's Avatar
New Castle, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,105
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
I wasn't going to weigh in here, but I think you all are the reason that stretch is now permitted. All you cry baby river rats crying about your favorite camp site are the reason that we now have to call in advance to float Ruby. In my world part of going camping is maybe not getting your favorite site. Tissues all around!

I'm personally going to start bitching about not getting my favorite site on Pumphouse and Northgate. I'm going to write letters, make phone calls, and eventually I'll get my way. After a while they'll be so tired of my complaining that maybe we'll get that permit system I've been wanting on those rivers too. Because if I don't get my favorite camp site one more time....

I blame you all. Keep on crying and there'll be no more unpermitted sections in the state.
And if it's you and not your wives fueling all this crying and complaining then you should lose your Man Card as well. Punk chumps. You complain like girls.

If you see my pirate flag and old ass Riken in your favorite campsite, start de-rigging because I'm all for sharing. Come on in, splash me with your bucket and let's have a shot and bitch about all the permit loving complaining cry babys.

The reason this section of river is permitted is because it is easy and attracts clueless dumbasses. This is the first overnight trip I ever did. We came around Mee corner, hoping to camp at a Mee Canyon site and the entire bench burned the night before. It was still smoldering. We camped in the cheatgrass on a steep bank below.

After the BLM instilled the "voluntary" sign-up sheet, I came into Black Rocks and could see ahead that the site I signed up for was taken. We pulled out at an earlier camp to walk down and chat with the group to see if they would be OK with sharing so we wouldn't need to poach someone else's camp. They met us with guns and said they weren't sharing. I found out at Westwater that the BLM busted them for their firework display. I told the Ranger about their mess left behind due to a lack of groover. We were fortunate and found a group camping at a site above where we pulled out who we shared mutual friends with and they let us join them.

Rivers are not permitted because someone complains they didn't get to camp where they hoped to. They are not permitted because groups welcome other boaters to join them. They are permitted because there are dumbasses in the world.

I agree that, in hindsight, steveskinner could have left a note when there was no sign-up sheet. However. the childish whiner in this story is the raft guide who took revenge for not getting the camp he thought they were entitled too. Beyond that, it was stated that the commercial group knew, from the Island site above, that Knowles was taken and could have made an alternate plan. May Flat has also been established below Knowles for groups that miss their camp.

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Old 07-08-2012   #23
wildh2onriver's Avatar
irvine, California
Paddling Since: 1987
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,197
Another reason that they pulled the trigger on permitting this section is because of folks not following the basic rules of groover use and pack it in--pack it out etiquette. The register has been there for decades, and yes, there were occasional snafus and outright jackasses from time to time.

Because of the pressure that has been put on this resource with the explosion of river users in the last 15-20 years, something had to give. The only thing that has saved the Dolores so far, is an inconsistent snowpack/runoff. Ruby/Horse always have enough water to float and is way closer to the river users peeps. I, for one am ok with the new system, but I do miss the old days.
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Old 07-13-2012   #24
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 25
Bitchin and Moanin

I don't condone complainin' and moanin'. Just pointing out that this system is still no workee. I always thought they should have a sign in that says first come first serve, but please sign in with your intentions.

The rangers are great but I would never add fuel to the fire by calling in the adult supervision on anyone.

I wouldn't call the leaders of Holiday either. The water was no biggie and I have had many water battles, few of which I have not settled on my own terms. But I was a bit surprised when the guide lashed out. He mooned us later in front of his customers, which we appreciated. (very light trenchbutt ... must not have a lot of river time under his belt).

In the old days people would sign up on Thursday and push off on Saturday, then be pissed when they didn't have an open camp. No workee. That's a lot of the reason why the permits are being issued. I've cleaned up after lots of knuckleheads.

And yes, there is a camp just above Knowles on the Island, marked by the BLM, so those guys could have easily stopped there or gone over there or joined us.
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Old 07-13-2012   #25
Summit County, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by steveskinner View Post
And yes, there is a camp just above Knowles on the Island, marked by the BLM, so those guys could have easily stopped there or gone over there or joined us.
Yep, there sure is. It's labeled on the sign-in sheet as The Island, and there is also a marker at the campsite. We camped here earlier this season because the upper Knowles camp was taken when we went to sign in (this was before the permit system went into place in May). It's a decent camp, very sandy, but not too large. You can totally see the upper Knowles camp from The Island camp no problem.
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Old 07-13-2012   #26
Buffalo, New York
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 109
My friends and I ran this stretch of river last year, when we found out it was to be permitted. I wanted to experience it before the changes and I understand why permits are necessary there. When we got to black rocks it was overcrowded. Although this stretch isn't super remote, there were tons of people. We go boating to get away from crowds, especially living in a big city. We ended up camping on an island way below black rocks, which was great. I used to live in Las Vegas and work dailies in the Black Canyon below Hoover Dam. That is an amazing 12 mile stretch of flat water with little to no regulations. There is toilet paper, poo, fire rings, and trash everywhere. I wrote the Superintendent of Lake Mead Nat. Rec. area and asked him to pass regulations on groover systems and fire pans. A few weeks later, he responded that those regulations were already in place and that toilets are required for all boaters. Unfortunately, he's likely never been there to see how overused, and gross it's become. As far as Ruby Horsethief, I have to agree that there are too many uneducated people out there and permits are a necessary pain in the ass to protect the places that some of us are loving to death.
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Old 07-13-2012   #27
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1901
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by steveskinner View Post

In front of the whole group of 20 or so clients one of the guides filled a water bucket and splashed my lounging ass on the way by. My digital camera may never be the same.

I guess I learned my lesson.
Maybe he was just trying to help you wash the sand out of your vag.
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Old 07-13-2012   #28
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Barnard(Marshall), North Carolina
Paddling Since: wen?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 285
shoulda got em back with a bucket of sand
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Old 07-13-2012   #29
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 25
Sandy Vag

Yesh - A rinse WAS in order come to think of it.
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Old 07-13-2012   #30
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Grand Junction, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 523
Sounds like full-time year-round permits coming our way for Ruby-Horsethief! Whine!

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