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Old 09-03-2010   #11
Salt Lake City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 150
Originally Posted by Jamie D. View Post
So I'll tell ya what does work...Three people get on top of the raft, whip out their throw bags (waist mounted or Astral type, attach to frame, get on opposite tube, flip. This works with loaded GC rigs, ask me how I know. Usually more simple is more better.
That'll work on the off chance that the first three people on the boat have throw bags. I wear a waist mounted one, but I was the only non-kayaker who did on my last grand canyon trip. I didn't see very many on any of the other groups we passed either. I'll stick with having my flip lines rigged on the frame so i'm not reliant on gear other folks may or may not have.

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Old 09-03-2010   #12
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 137
In all rafting situations I have a length of webbing that wraps around my waist 1 and 1/2 times and closed off with one or two biners. This is what I call my flip line. For any paddle or day drips this will work just fine. For a loaded rig you would need some help from others.

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Old 09-03-2010   #13
Thronton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 665
Good point ATG. That's why I have two flip lines on my frame, one in my PFD, and the throw bag can be yet another. Regardless of who might end up on the raft to help, all bases are covered.
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Old 09-03-2010   #14
Solgear's Avatar
Moab, Utah
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 24
I make a "flip bag" and I have used it many times. I lash a piece of webbing around the frame and clip the flip bag to it. I have flipped and it was easy to get to. My flip bags come with a carabineer and tubular webbing. D-Rings will fail with a loaded boat with a frame, but work well on an empty paddle raft. I had no problem getting to them on my upside down raft and the Solgear flip bag has some thought behind the design instead of a cheap bag of cheap rope. That said, I still have a length of webbing, two carabineers, two prussiks and a throwrope on me when I swim.
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Old 09-03-2010   #15
Cisco, Utah
Paddling Since: Dawn
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 351
Another rope that is usually handy and somewhat available... the bowline. Good piece of info to have in the back of your head should / when the time comes. If it is attached by a carabiner can be very versatile, otherwise strung through a D Ring or two is still useful (maybe not optimal). This then begs the question of how you stow it and how available it is (rats nest around a perimeter line? stuffed in a bag? simple knot hanging off the front?)
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Old 09-03-2010   #16
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Moab, Utah
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 24
I have used my own bowline bags for years. They have seen thousands of river miles and I have had a time or two when it did come out of the bag in extreme situations, but I still feel the percentage is incredibly low and no different than a tied coil. I found the bowline bag extremely convenient to throw to someone on shore after a flip, to swim to shore after a flip when the boat was too loaded for a mid-stream flip. If you use quality rope for your bowline, you have a additional options for re-flipping and pin situations. If you use cheap rope you have fewer options. In addition, using tubular webbing around your perimeter will allow more options for the same situations.
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Old 09-03-2010   #17
no tengo
mania's Avatar
Baytopia, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1876
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,768
Simple answer here. don't flip!

but there is always 'someone else' who does. so just whip out your waist flip line with a couple others and unflip. There is NEVER any need for a flip line attached to a boat.

Mania has spoken.
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Old 09-03-2010   #18
Westminster, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 524
I'm just amused by the idea that you can pull a D-ring off a boat with only one person's body weight. I've z-dragged off a single D-ring before (my rigging suggestion was out-voted...). If you can generate so much force by yourself while floating downstream on an upside down raft that you can yank out a D-ring, then rigging to the frame makes sense. Otherwise, taking your flip line off your waist or uncoiling it from your boat or whatever and attaching to a D-ring ought to be enough. If you're still in the wave train, you're only helping the water along with a repeat flip anyway. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010   #19
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Moab, Utah
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 24
I must admit that Mania has a point and the rule is: Don't Flip. But go big or go home, if you don't fall down you're not trying. I don't like words like: Never, Ever and Always when talking river stuff. With a Flip Bag on your boat, you will always have one more piece of gear in a flip or pin situation. I haven't had a problem yet with too much weight when I row or paddle a raft. I know it has been more convenient for me to use a flip bag already attached to the FRAME than to rig a loop of webbing to attach to the frame to attach my flip belt or in my case the length of webbing and carabineer I stow in a pocket where I'm not going to entrap myself on it. It is all about risk management. If you feel there is a really good chance that you could flip because you are running something that is really big, why not have a second option. Always think "What if" and doing so lends for a reason to have a flip bag and one more piece of gear to utilize in more ways than just righting your paddle raft. Anyone out there ever been stung because they had a flip bag... I'd like to hear your story. As for anyone who would be so bold to think that because they have spoken it must be so I say that those who think they know it all risk having the river teach them the most. But Mania, you sound real cool.
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Old 09-03-2010   #20
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Moab, Utah
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 24
asleep at the oars... I guess you're amused until you see it done. I too have seen D-rings yanked on and been surprised. And I've seen them blow also. Flip bags have more use than righting a paddle raft in a wave train.

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