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Old 10-13-2005   #11
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 335
I suppose Halliburton is over billing us for cleaning up the mess they made,kind of like IRAQ!!!!!!! hey i heard Cheney's been house hunting ,must need the dough.

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Old 10-15-2005   #12
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in a van down by the river, California
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human sewage, trains and acid in the river

With radioactive waste leaching into the Colorado River at the Atlas Mill Site near Moab at the rate of 110,000 gallons a day, combined with Haliburton dumping acid near the river, combined with oil tankers crashing into rivers, combined with pesticides, fungicides and herbicide runoff from farms draining into the river, to endocrine disruptors in Colorado creeks, ... one thing is very very clear:

Our rivers are under attack. And never before have we had so little recourse, so little protection and so little concern from our elected officials.

Either we make the difference as individuals to correct these ills in our generation, or our chance is gone. Rivers need our help as guardians, as defenders.

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Old 10-15-2005   #13
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I thought Enron was just misprepresenting their income, profits and expenses to the stock holders to make it look like they were making a ton of money.. now they are responsible for changing environmental law and policy?? Oh yeah, I agree that the spill was bad whether or not it was Halliburton or someone else, also it never made it into the water, it ran into a drain that eventually feeds into the river, the spill was stopped before it got that far. I am for the environment as well but misrepresenting facts, and politcizing the issue only creates a larger rift between the sides, I wish Sierra and others would get back to educating the masses about issues instead of the current polarizing political bashing and fear mongering that is going on. The latest issue that comes to mind was the recent Mercury regs put on power plant emissions. Up until this point in time there were absolutely NO regulations on Mercury emissions, they finally passed regs to limit and reduce the amount of Mercury that can be released (that would be a good thing right?) now I keep seeing the same article every month in the paper that is telling everyone that Mercury emissions are going to triple over the next ten years and that the admin is doing nothing about it and is giving their corporate buddies a break, what they don't say is that they get that number from the fact that they are adding in emissions from power plants that might or might not be built in the next ten years to make it seem as if the amount of Mercury is being allowed to increase. Anyway, stick to truth and facts, keep the passion of party and politics out of it and promote more public and educational awareness of issues and I believe that good will prevail. People know what is right and attacking people politically only backs them into a corner and creates an "It's us against them" mentality that goes nowhere.
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Old 10-16-2005   #14
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well put, cma...
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Old 10-16-2005   #15
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in a van down by the river, California
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Haliburtons influence on the whitehouse

what you thought was partially true cma, infact Haliburton has consistently overcharged the US Government for services in Iraq, they have lied about profits and shown corrupt business practices, and they have been given insider access to White House energy briefings and strategy meetings.
Truth is that Haliburton has plenty of pull on whitehouse energy policy making <--click there for an example.
Haliburton is the prime example of corporations running our government.
The US Taxpayers paid the boot to save Haliburton from bankruptcy, and anyway you slice that, its still shit.
Were it not for Bushy's war, Iraq II (we're really fuct this time), Haliburton would have filed Chapter 11 and gone tits up. Now we've got bodybags coming home to prop up the pile of shit that these geniuses have put us all in, the Iraqis and Americans soldiers. All without making long term resolution plans for civil war and extended unrest in a muslim country of determined jihadists. The soldiers coming home are telling us all the same thing, the war is not being fought to win over there.

The embedded politics of oil and major corporatins in this corrupt regime in office has been the case , and can be considered UN-American by anybody who studies the tax writeoffs, the changing of NEPA qualifications and the true damage to forests, roadless areas, native grouse populations and watersheds done by Coalbed Methane drilling/pumping/exploration.
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Old 10-16-2005   #16
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I'm not defending anything Halliburton has done.. I was only stating that it did not make it into the river.. my point was that it doesn't matter who dumps it, it's all bad..

Oh yeah, why did you edit and remove the ENRON statement? Is it an attempt to make my post seem less relevant and yourself more credible?
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Old 10-16-2005   #17
Join Date: Mar 2004
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I just can't resist---cut the bullshit "kayaker". If you want to make a point about facts then post sites that are not run by your left wing friends and their slant on it. Show me the documents, budgetary appropriations and the money trail. I just can't stand the second hand garb that spews from the mouth of the left at times. The right does it too, they hear it on Limbaugh (or however you spell his name) and then preach it as if it was there own researched idea.
Second, I don't know what study you did that allows you to make the statement that the soldiers are saying the war is not being fought to win but that's quite the heavy statement for a guy who I'd hazard a guess talked to a few buddies that share his political beliefs.
CMA's statements about sticking to the FACTS seem right on to me.
I do have one question that I have been dying to ask and since there are so many liberals on the site this seems to be the perfect place. What exactly will make you happy? I assume you all drive cars to work, boat, carry out daily activities ect. but yet you constantly bitch and moan about drilling for oil to provide gas for cars. Same goes for heating the homes of the poor. Gas prices go up, Bush's fault, Bush drills for oil, he's anti-environmental. Pesticides and Herbicides are used to create a greater crop yield so that prices can remain lower in an industry that is already subsidized by the federal government--so the poor can afford to eat, but you bitch about that. We could have put the last 60 years into nuclear energy research but people like yourself squashed that in the past and that could have been the way out. In my mind that was the biggest goofup in energy history. You mentioned endocrine disruptors and one again I think you put something up that you have no idea what that means. So, the big question I have for all the liberals out there, and it is an honest question, what do you want to do? I'm tired of all the bitching and I'd like to hear any kind of solutions from your side--and don't give me this shit about solar and wind power because we all know that the technology is not advanced enough. What do we do? More nuclear--it costs a lot. Natural gas--still have to drill. Just curious to see the rational, non-inflammatory side of all this and maybe I can learn something about the other side of the aisle while I'm at it.
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Old 10-16-2005   #18
Join Date: Feb 2005
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What I want to happen about energy is this, and I understand that this is very idealistic, but I want there to be incentives for people to develop sustainable energy. Government incentives. This is the country that made a decision to put some person on the moon in ten years and they did it, not to mention that putting someone on the moon is a completely meaningless/rediculous goal. It acomplished nothing. What if a president made a statement along the lines of america will develop the potential to replace our dependence on unrenewable resources in the next ten years. You said that wind and solar don't have the technology but why don't we work on it. When I hear GW say that a possible energy solution to the oil problem is coal it angers me. That is a step backwards. We will always have this problem until we stop drilling for our energy.

I think that all political parties put their interests in front of their constituents, but I feel that the right wing brings this to a new level. First with energy when leaders of the GOP have a history in the oil industry this will influence their energy policy, plain and simple.

On other topics I can't understand why so many poor people follow the republicans blindly. I think it is because the republicans have commandeered the christian faith, but republicans do not have the interests of poor white trash southerners in mind. Their policies do benefit physicians and other wealthy people and I can't fault these people for voting in their own financial interests. If i had a real job I would consider that party as well.

This is very unrelated but the thing that pisses me off the most about republicans and i promise this is the end of my rant is their culture of life bull shit. This party talks about being agaisnt abortion and the terri shivo thing, but this is the party that supports the war, guns, and the death penalty. I don't care what policies these people have and don't want to discuss how I feel about these issues, but these three areas that republicans support are the furthest thing from "culture of life" that I can imagine. Think about the stink they made over Terri Shivo and then think about the fact that these people support the death penalty. Its indefensable.
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Old 10-17-2005   #19
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 206
Here are all of the current government incentives for renewable energy..
There are some pretty good ones there. The truth is that solar and wind have been shown that they alone will never be able to reasonably handle the countries requirements and that and additional large source would still be required. I am a registered Independant, my views are that both the Republicans and the Democrats are f'd up. The Dems are no more on the side of low income people than the Reps in my opinion. Like Medman said, the enviro groups would like to scrap the whole system and go straight to wind and solar, not a bad idea except that the current production costs of those technologies would mean higher energy bills as well as higher prices in the stores for everything we buy because business would have to pass it on to the consumer, which really would only hurt the low income people. I will bash Bush when needed but I also do not believe in blaming everything on Bush either. Someone just posted a link to an article that came out yesterday about purchasing mining claims, and one of the first things the article tells you is that it is Bush's fault and that he is giving away land to his corp buddies, however if you read it carefully way down towards the end of the article the BLM states that these are all applications that were placed before congress put a halt on these types of applications and that Clinton also approved many of these apps and that by law they have to process these apps and approve the valid apps. What happened to the issues that were spewed all over the air before the election.. Social Security? It was a major point for both parties.. but the only idea I've heard so far is Bush's, the only response I've heard from the Democrats is that Bush's idea is the worst ever and that there is nothing wrong with Social Security. Gay Marriage.. I've heard so many people say they voted for Kerry strictly because Bush wanted to ban gay marriage.. didn't Kerry state on national TV during the debates when he was asked that he was against gay marriage? .. it goes on and on and on......
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Old 10-17-2005   #20
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 206
Just wanted to add this little grant for corporations that would like to go green:

500,000 on projects and up to 10million dollars on guaranteed loans..

Aspen gives out some very nice tax credits.. Come on Boulder, you can preach it but I don't see you on the list helping out here:

This another one of my points, if people and groups spent as much time educating people and corporations on this stuff instead of spewing hatred just think of what could get done. My guess is that 98% of the population out there doesn't realize that these programs already are in place and do exsist.

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