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Old 07-18-2010   #81
El Flaco's Avatar
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1984
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Posts: 1,879
Found this vid online - thought I'd include it for the purposes of thoughtful, respectful discussion:
PADDLE DAY 32 - *VIDEO* - Deadly Frog Rock

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Old 07-19-2010   #82
no tengo
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Baytopia, Colorado
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thanks flaco. it looks pretty easy to miss but also terrifying if you don't for some reason.

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Old 07-19-2010   #83
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Mar 2010
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The thought that we can stop deaths from occurring on rivers through altering river features is naive. As long as people run rivers, sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers will continue to tragically die through the activity. The best way to prevent deaths from occurring is for people to give the river and individual runs/rapids the respect they deserve. Whenever you remove hazards to make a "safe" environment, you perpetuate the idea that an activity is safe and that individuals don't need to take the time to understand the risks that are truly involved with the activity they are doing (you give the impression that people don't need to respect the river.) I bet the most "river" deaths occur on the safest man made river environment possible... reservoirs. Lot's of people die because they don't respect that even though the water isn't even moving, it is still dangerous. Bottom line, nothing can prevent all river deaths (things will happen). Understanding and respecting the risks involved will lead to the least deaths.
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Old 07-19-2010   #84
Thronton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
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After monitoring this thread and giving it a lot of thought, I guess I would change my "vote". While I still think it's a slippery slope to take actions into one's own hands (like those at Quartzite did years ago), I would be in favor of a governing body of some sort taking action on this to minimize the likelihood of further deaths. By that, I mean if the ARHA, State Parks or someone like that would take action to alter this hazard in some way, then I think that would be the best solution. At least one would hope that those kinds of governing bodies would be able to take things on a case by case basis and avoid the "slippery slope" that many fear. Besides, they could use funds that they use for other improvements to do it "right". I am not sure what "right" is necessarilly, but hopefully they would. Dynamite may leave sharp edges and such, just throwing rocks in migh not stick, etc. They would have more resources than individuals would to make a permanent, minimal impact change to the rapid/river.

Flaco, thanks for the video. That's one of the best images I've seen of it, because I stay away from that section at low water myself, just because of this possibility.
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Old 07-19-2010   #85
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Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
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Posts: 580
I'm still on the fence with this one, but taking a load of local rock and stuffing them in seems a lot better than using dynamite. I think there was another river with one annoying portage for commercial groups that got dynamited (Quartzite). How does the paddling community think of those folks today?
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Old 07-19-2010   #86
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7
If anyone feels the urge to fill-in or alter Frog Rock, PLEASE DO NOT take any actions until Kim has been recovered.

I am relatively inexperienced with whitewater (hand full of private trips per summer guided by my experienced buddy), have never personally seen or floated this section of the Arkansas and am a friend of Kims. I appreciate the debate going on here, many informed opinions. I am in support of altering Frog Rock. I do not favor altering any other section of any other river or proceeding down any other type of slippery slope, but I believe that Frog Rock is an unnecessary evil and the world would be a better place if you did not need to lose a friend to this rapid in the future.
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Old 07-19-2010   #87
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A reminder about the first entrapment death this year on an "easy" stretch of the Arkansas, go to:

Caņon City Daily Record - Woman dies in rafting accident
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Old 07-19-2010   #88
TOUCHDOWN, Mississippi
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by cadster View Post
A reminder about the first entrapment death this year on an "easy" stretch of the Arkansas, go to:

Caņon City Daily Record - Woman dies in rafting accident
that was pretty much a fluke accident, and not really the same situation as a sieve that has killed 4 people AND WILL kill more.
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Old 07-19-2010   #89
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Hi OleMissBoater,
According to
American Whitewater - NWRI - Arkansas 04. Railroad Bridge Launch to Buena Vista
there have been at least 5 incidents leading to 6 deaths since 1990. Including this most recent accident, that's 7 people in 20 years killed at Frog Rock.
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Old 07-19-2010   #90
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Was this accident also a “fluke”?

Go to:

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accident, ark

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