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A Trout in Trouble

9K views 51 replies 22 participants last post by  lmyers 
#1 ·
Would be rolling on the ground if the subject wasn't so serious:

A Trout in Trouble

Help save the Colorado. Sign the petition!!!
 
#8 ·
Yes folks, this IS very serious in so many ways. Please sign if you've ever enjoyed a day of fishing, a day of boating, appreciate CO wildlife and river scenery, OR know anyone who does.

The Fraser River is right by my house. We should have a month or more of good class III boating, but many years we don't get a single day of "boatable" flows due to water diversions. There is a great take-out, but the put-in is a bit tricky. This could be resolved if we actually had some water to float, but sadly folks want to take more water from an already endangered river. The low flows during the summer result in high water temps that kill the trout as well. Even if you aren't interested in the Fraser, since it flows to the Colorado, it will affect water availability for so many other river users. :cry:
 
#9 ·
sad for the trout and kayakers

indeed fraser is a really nice run-good boating and scenery in a nice secluded canyon. used to live in tabernash for a while and got to do laps a few seasons. gets harder to run every year it seems and i havent done it in quite a while

why can't front range conserve water? been a while since i lived there. i know my brother says his las vegas water rate is far lower than when he was in seattle. just doesn't make any sense
 
#13 ·
When I shared this on Facebook I got this comment from a friend who owns property in Winter Park as well as Denver, and thought it was worth sharing:

"Alright brother I signed this but in a conversation with a Diane Degette several years ago, she noted that the blanket petitions/emails are one of the least effective ways to instigate political change. She advised a personalized letter/email to your reps. I'll take the time to send one, hope you do too. And btw Denverites shouldn't be allowed to have lawns as far as I'm concerned.....it's called zero scaping people. That's what you get when you live in an arid climate zone."
 
#16 ·
I agree with xeriscaping. Most of my lawn is river rock or landscaping. I live in the front range.

However, should we discuss the fact that some of the farmers on the front range (and other western state homesteads) use more water than hundreds of homes combined but yield no edible crop? "Use it or lose it" sound familiar? Slow down irresponsible water consumption premised upon 100+ years of antiquated water rights.
 
#19 ·
Logan - I do not pretend to understand this situation. It is very complex. However I have gone to a couple meetings on the topic, and while most of it was confusing to me this is what I gathered:

Basically the water company bought water rights a million years ago for a donkey and a bushel of hay when Grand county had no concept of the number of golf courses and lawns they'd want to soak with our river, and now they own the water, period. The politicians (especially Senator Udall) are already on our side and fighting for us, but there is really nothing they can do to change the water rights. TU is trying to show the importance of NOT destroying this river/ecosystem and the unpopularity this will cause Denver Water if they do. While large corporations are ultimately about making money, they don't like to be hated either. This is where the petitions come it. Writing a letter is good too - make sure one goes to Denver Water though.

If I understood incorrectly, feel free to clarify.
 
#20 ·
I don't disagree. It would probably be better served to send your letter to Denver Water than to your Senator. I also agree that it will likely change nothing because the water rights have already been purchased and the majority of citizens in our state are in favor of such projects. Good point to start a new conversation on.

What do you feel is the best way to approach facilitating future change to water consumption and water law in Colorado? The population is only going to grow, and if weather patterns continue to change in the way we have seen lately this is going to become an even larger issue in the future.
 
#21 ·
I sometimes stay at a friends house in Denver. It is great to defrost every once in a while. I jog a 3 mile loop through the neighborhood and pass 200 green lawns (most on automatic watering systems) and 1 xeriscaped one. And this is in a desert environment. Water prices are so low that you can leave your faucet running 24/7 and I bet it wouldn't even impact your water bill. The bottom line is that I think there is not enough encouragement to conserve water. I don't think this is because people don't care - I think/hope it is because they aren't aware of the impacts. I think if they were, the water used per household could easily be reduced, eliminating the need for more water diversions, at least in the near future. But perhaps that is just a pipe dream. If people cut their water use in half, but the population triples, we are screwed regardless. :confused:
 
#23 ·
While I don't know of specific developments, anecdotally I believe that there are housing developments where the covenants require a certain amount of green grass.

We won't be able to change the culture to one of conservation and xeriscaping until developers understand that you needn't require eastern style landscaping just to sell houses.

In a similar vein, sadly, one of the west's best sources of native and xeric plants closed this year. High Country Gardens out of Santa Fe is no longer...!
 
#24 ·
In a similar vein, sadly, one of the west's best sources of native and xeric plants closed this year. High Country Gardens out of Santa Fe is no longer...!
Oh my gosh! I bought so many plant from them over the last 17 years. That's really a bummer as the only non-food gardening I'm going to do at our new house is drought-tolerant. I haven't bought plants in so long, what other options are out there? They were getting awfully expensive, but the selection was great.
 
#27 ·
Agreed: Xeriscaping is the way to go and we all should use less water

However, about 80% of the water sent to the Front Range goes to agriculture. So if we people want to truly have an impact on water conservation, we need to stop eating meat, as that consumes more water per Calorie than anything else. Can't give up meat, just give up beef, that is the highest water usage of the lot.

Just some info.
 
#30 ·
#38 ·
Stupid Vegans

I challenge you to tie this into the original post. We want to preserve the Upper so we can raft it, and fish it. Lots of people who fish it also eat the fish they harvest. Therefore, I also challenge you to kiss my ass. The elk, deer, and bear that I eat consume the same amount of water whether I shoot and eat their flesh or not. I fear that your quarry is big agriculture, and that doesn't apply to a lot of table fare for Coloradoans that I know.
 
#32 ·
Apologies, you are correct, Denver Water does not supply agricultural needs.

However, my previous post was intended to inform people that regardless of where they live and how much water may be around them, that they too can conserve water by changing their eating habits.

As I said before, the vast majority of water in our state goes to agriculture (actually 86%) Check link #1 below. Therefore if we are to have the largest impact upon conservation, it would be centered around our diets. As raising cattle for consumption is highly water intensive, it would make sense to stop eating it (sorry that this would affect your relative's business). I also agree on xeriscaping lawns (and that would affect many landscaping companies negatively as well)

Also, Denver Water is responsible for consuming 2% of all of Colorado's Water Usage (see link 2, the same, I believe you gave before Jennifer). Again, this goes back to my original point of addressing agricultural demands over private home users.

So this begs a question: is it really the consumption of front range lawns that is causing the Colorado to "dry" up? My answer would be that front rangers do need to use less, but the agricultural demands placed upon the river far out way Denver Water's, so that is where big change needs to occur.

Finally, many people who golf or have families like their green lawns, just as you said you like beef (because it's tasty). Asking one group of people to sacrifice for conservation sake, while you do not, is a bit hypocritical, yes?


Colorado Water Conservation Board

Water Use | Denver Water
 
#33 ·
So let me see if I get this right:
1) Lawns and golf courses are a higher priority (read "societal need") than food?
2. We should eliminate beef from our diet because it uses 10,000 +/- gal of water to produce 17 g of protein plus high levels of iron and zinc and essential amino acids not found in vegetarian based diets...even though the vast majority of this water is used NOT to water the cattle, but to process them. And the water used for processing is returned to the environment once it is cleaned. Further more, cattle spend most of their lives eating roughage that is not useful for anything else nor can the land be farmed due to lack of water
3) We should stop eating bread because it uses 10 gallons for a measily 2 G of protein.
4) We should also stop drinking coffe because it take 35 gal per cup and I drink 14 cups a week so that is 500 gallon per week
5) We should stop eating corn because it uses 8% of the global water supply.
6) Luddites that we are, we should ban GMO "golden Rice" that contains a significantly higher level of Vitamin A than regular rice and has the potential to eliminate the high levels of vitamin A deficiency in children in rice eating coutries.
7) We should also stop engineering grains that require lower levels of water to grow or soybeans that can be grown in tropical regions such as brazil and tropical africa.
8. We should stop using BT products and let the bugs eat all our crops so we really do have to stop eating these foods.

Read this paper by Jeffery Simmons the President of Elanco. The World population will reach 9 Billion by 2050. We are going to need 100% more food to feed the world. Yet we certainly won't have 100% more quallity land (or water). So the only answer to starvation is using technology to improve yields, water effeciency, plant varieties, disease resistance, etc. Just eliminating items from our food supply is not the answer, in fact it is ignoring the reality of global agriculture and propulation growth.

http://www.feedstuffsfoodlink.com/M...Economics-and-Consumer-Choice-White-Paper.pdf
 
#34 ·
Remember that irrigated agriculture in Colorado - especially those higher elevation grass pastures - provide some other important benefits, like wildlife habitat, late season return flows to streams, and scenic open space. So yeah ag uses a lot of water, but its got other benefits - while the transfer of water from the west slope to water lawns on the front range is an entirely consumptive use - none of that water returns to the Colorado. What "big" changes would you suggest for ag? Maybe we should all switch to grass-fed beef which uses much less water and utilizes land that can't be used for other food crops.
 
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