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Old 07-02-2005   #11
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Helio, there is quite a bit of criticism for the 'jackson' or backdeck roll. I would not however call this the sweep roll. I use a sweep roll that does not end up on the backdeck. You just have to weigh the pros and cons of each type of roll and find one that you are confident with.

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Old 07-02-2005   #12
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
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sweep is good, so is EJ's roll

In my personal experience, the sweep roll is a great roll. It was much easier on my shoulder, more fluid for me to execute, and easier in turbulent water. The sweep roll proper does not have you lying on your back deck and does not have you exposed to rocks. No criticism of the C-C, the sweep works best for me. Some regions teach the C-C, some the sweep. In my mind learning both well and seeing what works best for you is the best answer.

I also don't think that it exposes you to rocks as noted above. If you break it down: 1) you try to roll. 2) you don't get all the way up, and you know you are going back down, you are either at the waters surface or slightly above, not underwater, 3) you start going back down and immediately tuck and go for it again. I have missed lots of rolls, and I do the sweep, but I have never missed a roll and ended up on my back deck looking to kiss rocks. The key is to tuck immediately and instinctively. When I miss a roll, I always end up kissing my deck, and I have the scratches from rocks on my helmet, and not scars on my face.

I have EJ's video and I think that his take on the roll is good. I think that most people misunderstand his take and maybe haven't tried it. You really have to watch the video and try it in the water to understand it. It's basic physics. You can roll yourself up much more easily if you are really close to the boat (lying backward a bit) than if you are sitting up straight, due to how far your mass is from your center of rotation. If you watch EJ's vid and try it out, you lean a bit more back for the final followthrough, which gets you up very well, and then you immediately and aggressively scull your blade forward while agressively leaning forward so that you end up in an aggressive position ready for a forward stroke. When you do the leaning back, you are out of the water (and you are only there for a second). You have an active blade in the water the entire time that you are recovering to the forward position, so any upsets can be balanced with a brace. Its a solid bomber roll, and can help prevent the carping with your head straightup that ends up killing many rolls where the body is in the middle. If it gets you up every time and its quick, its safe, not dangerous. I think another difference in opinion is that teaching methods have changed quite a bit over the years. The "old school" of trying to stay forward while doing a C-C roll is what was taught (thats how my buddy learned it and what one of the posters responded with). More recently teaching has progressed towards some easier ways to roll. C-C is still taught to beginners because you can break it down into sections, where sweep is a bit more intuitive.

As grasshoppers says, there are many paths to the top of the mountain, but they all see the same view at the top.

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Old 07-05-2005   #13
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 168
Different strokes for different folks I didn't mean to offend anyone here. If I did I apologize. I'm just trying to share my experience. My methods tend to be very old school as I started boating when the Dancer was the schiznit. If you like to sweep then sweep. The sweep is not a new roll however. It has been around a long time and I have provided first aid on several people who use it. I'm not saying that you will get hurt if you use it, I just like to stack the odds in my favor. I sense a little sensitivity here, like I called someone’s mom a cow or something If you’re that emotionally attached to your role, you might want to evaluate the motivation. At any rate, role the way that works best for you, I'll see you on the other side
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Old 07-07-2005   #14
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Learn them all

High brace
low brace
c to c
reverse sweep
hand roll
no-hand, no paddle torque roll

learn them, learn them on both sides....never ever have an off-side or weak side, make them both as strong, it will save your butt
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Old 07-07-2005   #15
pnw, Washington
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no-hand, no paddle torque roll.........ok, ya stumped me, what is that?
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Old 07-07-2005   #16
Join Date: Dec 2003
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never ever have an off-side or weak side, make them both as strong, it will save your butt

I agree 100% Never have a week side.
Dude you can pull off a no hand roll. Sweet. I've only ever seen a tripple jointed female gymnist pull that off.
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Old 07-07-2005   #17
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only done it in a few boats

mostly creekers and a couple playboats

you go over, and then extend onto the back deck and torque it either side, like you're trying to twist. as your shoulder breaks out of the water, you start to sit up

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