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Old 10-18-2006   #1
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 151
a GRAND idea

so i posted a while back regarding a july 11 grand canyon permit that i hold, but cant make. luckily, i thought ahead and listed an alternate trip leader who will be able to go.
in an effort to NOT completely give up the chance to run the canyon, i came up with the following solution...
- the permit is good for 16 people.
- 8 of "my peeps" go in july 2007, and put on with 8 other peeps who belong to a party that holds a permit in 2008, 2009, or 2010.
- when the individual who holds the later permit's date comes up, myself and 7others could join their launch date, and all would be well in the world.
the benefits of this system are...
- that some people who were able to take the time in 07 and a latter year could possibly go twice in the span of a few years.
- its always easier logistically to plan a trip for 8 than 16.
the downfall is group commeraderie. so....
1. after the launch, as early as lunch on day 1, could the two groups split apart? (wouldnt it be easy enough to explain to rangers that half of your group only had 18 days to be out and the others had 21 or something along those lines?
2. is there anyone with a later permit that would consider this idea?

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Old 10-18-2006   #2
COUNT's Avatar
Summit, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,085
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Most river permits require the trip leader to be present at all times (which would prevent you from being able to split). I'm not sure about the Grand but this is definately true for the Middle Fork and Deso and I think it's true for Cat, the San Juan, and the Grand.


"The world would be a better place if everyone kayaked."-Brad Ludden (Valhalla)
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Old 10-18-2006   #3
Andy H.'s Avatar
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,909
I doubt that you could get away with splitting up a GC trip - seems like you'll have to float and camp together for the entire trip.

I'd recommend that you take this issue over to a couple of other groups where you'll be more likely to find folks for permit sharing and experts in the rules. Check out the discussion list on the Grand Canyon Private Boaters Assoc. (GCPBA - dot- org) website or the UtahRafters-dot-com site. Another place you may be able to hook up with folks that have GC permits would be BoaterTalk and Raftzone - dot-com.

Good luck!

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 10-18-2006   #4
San Diego and Frisco, CO
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 107
When I was a river rangerette down on the Grand in the 80's, you would have gotten busted big time for splitting up a trip. And unlike the 80's, things seem to have kinda serious down there, the last guy who got caught for using fake IDs just got sentenced to 30 days IN JAIL! Yikes.
Of course, you'd have to be caught by rangers, and they are not on the river all the time. But on the other hand, in the areas where competiton is tight for camps, the commercial trips won't take kindly to one private trip using up two camps, and they might just narc on you. Don't mean to fan the flames of the commercial v. privates fire, but just a fact of life. But the other posters had good ideas of other places to check for info.
Good luck.
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