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Old 07-09-2007   #61
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 33
If you are going to ban the "old" and "fat" from the river, many of us will have to sell our boats and stay home. There are plenty of very capable boaters who are more than 50 years old and a lot more than 250 lb..

Knowing that someone was a 52-year-old woman from TX tells us absolutely nothing about her physical fitness, mental fitness, or capability for running WW.

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Old 07-09-2007   #62
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 40
Everyone keeps dissing "fat" people. what about all the other factors that go in to determining if you should be on the river that day. Did you just fly in from the coast....are you hungover...did you drive straight through the night to get to the Ark. i don't think judging folks by their appearance is a good determiner of who should be on the river in a given section.

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Old 07-09-2007   #63
God Amongst Men
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Phuoc My, Da Nang, THE 'NAM
Paddling Since: 1845
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,988
its not all "fat" people. its the types like the one mentioned previously, the kind who are 100+ lbs overweight and can barely move under their own power. people like you see in boats in the numbers and pine creek all the time.......again, its a wonder there isnt more fatalities than there is....
"Don't f$&@ing eddy out, just run it! Whaddya doin??" -LMyers
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Old 07-09-2007   #64
loveland, Colorado
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 317
and so it goes...

"Crap happens", for you discerning members. If that fat bastard from Wisconsin signs the waiver-good to go! It is the rare deaths that permit the commercial companies to continue to provide a lifetime experience for hundreds of thousands others. It is Darwin at work. So, who wants to paddle Clear Creek tomorrow as I see the season is about done here...

Rich at 970-669-1929
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Old 07-09-2007   #65
no tengo
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Baytopia, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1876
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,768
I will try to be constructive here and of course will try to learn from what others have to say as well.

one thing that helps us on the silverton section of the upper animas but by no means guarantees anything is swim training. This usually involves practicing the aggressive swim to a boat or shore and maybe some bag practice (not as important as the self rescue). just today we did some training and someone realized they weren't cut out for it and opted out and got refunded (we would have opted them out if they hadn't). of course there was the time we trained this guy and he did okay but was basically a sack of potatoes when he fell in for real. you just never know but in many cases it reduces the panic factor.

we also show the swim chapter of kent fords whitewater self defense dvd. many people comment on how it helped them in a real swim. its not always practically to swim train every person going on every river but a video in addition to a safety talk helps many people visualize what to do.
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Old 07-09-2007   #66
canon city, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16
deaths on arkansas

I guided on the Ark for a long time. I worked for a small company. The owner would let the guide decide wether a custermer could go on a certain run. Today the bottom dollar is the onlt crietier. The old joke was ; Whats the minimum age . Answer\75.00

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Old 07-09-2007   #67
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 27
Go to West Virginia, then tell me fat people can't run class V.
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Old 07-09-2007   #68
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16
2 types of guests

There are two types of guests…

Type 1 says: “I don’t know – You know best.”
Type 2 says: “I know best.”

Guess what…. In either case, you know best.
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Old 07-09-2007   #69
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
Well, this thread is degrading. Some good comments.

One thing that strikes me is that a customer going on a long swim shouldn't kill them. Shit happens and you may get 2 out of 4 rafts flipping. Dump 12 people in the water and probably 2 will go for a long ride. That in itself shouldn't be life threatening to your average tourist in reasonable shape. A long swim is not a freak accident on the Numbers.

Another thing that strikes me is that most customers really don't know what they are getting into. They don't know white water. While they should know rafting on the river is different from a ride at Disney World, they don't know how much or what the key skills are that they need. Tell them before they sign up for a Numbers trip that they have to be able to endure a long swim in rapids in ice cold water.

I wish we had more specifics on what happened. Was it as simple as one raft flipped in Number 5, the second at Number 5 1/2, and some customers went for a long swim? It also sounds like they didn't have sufficient thermal gear on.
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Old 07-09-2007   #70
Summit County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by yourrealdad View Post
Do you want me to shut up or shut my mouth? I am typing anyways not speaking unless you are one of those "slower" people who reads outloud what they are typing and moves their lips when they read and then I think I should tell you that YOU can't go rafting because I don't take fatties, dust buckets, and retards. Now that isn't very PC, is it now?

Over 400,000 teenagers die every year in auto accidents in the US, are we going to stop letting young adults drive? Or are we going to change the speed limits to 20mph. Hell no we are not. Why? Because it is the tradeoff for convenience and people are free to choose what they want to do, they accept the risk. That is why we are slaughtering people in foreign countries, so fat and old people have the freedom to raft. Maybe you didn't celebrate that little holiday 5 days ago you damn pinko commie bastard.

Way to call the rescue pro a retard. :thumsup:

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