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Old 06-12-2009   #11
gapers's Avatar
Not a river guide, Ft. FunK
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 276
I want names...

Devils advocate
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Old 06-13-2009   #12
boof512's Avatar
Teacher, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 308

Oh so what your saying is Breck, From A-1, put the cock block on raising money for kids with cancer..Real nice..
You know he has one of those "quiet zone" sines infront of his house.. I would donate some money to outfit kayakers will air horns...I am just sayin, that guys a prick and dosent deserve a "quiet zone"
Better luck next year

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Old 06-13-2009   #13
FoCo,NoCo, Colorado
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 280

Dunno if it was Breck. Apparently the complaint was from a Poudre Park resident who received word of the PV Challange through the Poudre Rock Report. One of their primary concerns was that we have been raising money for a charity by clocking vertical feet in the Poudre River drainage.

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Old 06-13-2009   #14
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B.F.E., Wyoming
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 907
How Retarded... I agree with Boof then... Everybody needs to go by and blow an airhorn or a whistle...
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Old 06-13-2009   #15
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185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
Paddling Since: 1864
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 917
I am confused. How can a bunch of kayakers and rafters be told that they can't paddle or hang out at a public area? Is Poudre Park turning into Sportsman's Paradise?

I say fuck it and do it another time. I will gladly come and race when I get there, and if need be throw in a Roshambow.

That person basically stole money from people with cancer. It saddens me that his happened on the most amazing river in Colorado.
970-217-21 six six
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Old 06-14-2009   #16
Dave Frank's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,727
So what specifically was denied?

I've always wondered about that quiet sign.

(seven two 0)-298-2242
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Old 06-14-2009   #17
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 748
i talked to a forest service guy today and he said there were no complaints that he knew of, but someone on the forest service read this website and felt that this was a violation.

The guy I talked to said that the general forest service consensus is that money changing hands for charity or non profit is ok on forest service land, but other people at the forest service think that any money that changes hands on forest service land requires a permit. It definatly sucks, but in the future any of these activities are ok with a special use permit which aren't hard to get, it just takes the extra time to apply for one. By the way I wasn't at the race so I have no first hand information, just what I was told.

Also, Breck is crazy but i don't think he would have called this one in, but I might be wrong.
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Old 06-14-2009   #18
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 400
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I think the rumors need to be cleared up by the Forest Service. It wasn't like the harassment ended at the put-in.

Come on F.S. Obviously you're reading. Post up how we get said permit. We'd gladly go get one. The race must go on.

Fort Collins has an AMAZING boating community that by no means deserves this. This was a great cause, and Laurie, Sarah and others have done a hell of a job raising money.

Well, if it was Breck I'm sure harassment will ensue. As much as I've heard he's a jerk, I don't think we have enough evidence to place blame yet.

What's next? I think we need to get one of those fancy permits, and go have our race. And not just race, but keep a donations jar and charge a small entry fee for the same cause. Though it may not come directly from the ladies that made the first attempt, it will still keep that cause the top priority. As with the Gnarrows race, have the forest service help with safety.

Who's in? When?

Jeff Burley
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Old 06-14-2009   #19
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,239
Yo,would love to contribute to a worthy cause and get a shot at Randaddy and this other ducky dude RESCHEDULE IT THEY/WE WILL COME.
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Old 06-14-2009   #20
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 181
As someone who was there first hand, and spent nearly an hour trying to explain our situation to a couple of Law Enforcement individuals, here is what I can tell you about the other night:

*We didn't have a permit and admitted that we were wrong. They explained that the permit process for charity events is much easier than commercial permitting, and we agreed that we will do the right thing next year and get one.

*They were sympathetic to our cause, but were concerned about safety issues, which we understood.

*After telling us that what we were doing was not OK and that we needed to shut things down, she then told us that we had pulled at her heartstrings and maybe she would back down and let us go ahead with the event. But that we may face a court appearance and/or fines if we wanted to do so. This was all very confusing and we decided we would be cautious and scrap it, because if we were to pay $500 to anyone it was going to be First Descents and not court fees.

*She came prepared with print outs from Eddy Flower and the Vertical Challenge with all of our names, donations and vertical feet paddled; but likely did not read anything on the website to understand how the contest works, which is: (1) teams compete to paddle the most vertical feet in a one-month span, and (2) teams compete to raise money and awareness for an incredible cause. From her point of view, looking at our stats, she believed that we were getting donations directly for paddling rivers that we did not have permits to raise money on, in which case she found the entire contest questionable. If money is to be raised on a river in FS jurisdiction, only people with permits should be making that money. Of course, our vertical feet paddled on any river are not directly in connection with any money made because all donations at this point are flat-fee donations. People are donating money to FD under the name of our team, and not donating money for us to paddle any particular stretch of river.

*The USFS was called by someone in particular who asked them to come put a stop to the race. She said something like 'people all up and down this river got wind of this, and the rafting companies too, and we got a call to come put an end to this event'. There are 5 permit-holders on the Poudre. We know that 3 of those 5 did not make the call...that leaves 2, and I won't name any names, but process of elimination gives us an idea.

I don't want this to be a shit-talking thread about who owns or doesn't own the river or who called and what we should do about it. There is already enough animosity on our river regarding these issues. For years, we've gotten the feeling that the rafting companies believe that because they have the permits, they are essentially the owners of the Poudre. But really, we all know that each of us owns a part of this river, we do our best to take care of each other on it and be good stewards of the environment, and fight to keep it the incredible resource it is. A wild & scenic river.

We will sort it out with them and do the right thing next year to make it right and everyone can come out and join in the FUNdraising. In the meantime, the whole point of this is to raise money for a commendable cause. One that is close to many of our hearts. If you want to help, you can go here (Make a Donation) and donate on behalf of Team Poudre Puff.

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