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Old 08-04-2009   #111
Dipshit with the most.
carvedog's Avatar
Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,497
Originally Posted by lenahoff View Post
Been offered two trips, one was leaving tomorrow but the guy was soloing and I decided it would be pretty lame to go with just one other person. The second isn't until March and I'm going to be in Africa... boo

I kinda have a third offer, trying to decide whether I want to row someone else's cat boat down the second half of the river or not....

Cats are forgiving. I saw a guy row a medium sized one down the Selway when he was too loaded to row. Higher water. He never took a stroke through Wolf Creek at 6 feet. Amazing.

No I don't boat with him anymore. CAts are fun. Wet (ter) but fun.
Don't drop your pipe though (for tobacco) as they don't float well.

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Old 08-06-2009   #112
Bellevue, Washington
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 30
Well I guess I'm destined not to go before I head to Africa. Bummer. The last offer has not gotten back to me after offering me a trip.

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Old 08-06-2009   #113
JDHOG72's Avatar
Wolcott, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 432
You're still invited on Westwater (Upper, Upper Grand) Sept 12th. If you do it 21 days in a row it is just like the Grand Canyon.
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Old 08-06-2009   #114
Bellevue, Washington
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 30
So I need some advice. Does this seem like a normal price to run the grand privately?

We are renting from the outfitter who I rented from last year (0 and found their equipment and service to be first class. I am sending this to all people who have been invited on this trip letting them know that a "ball park" figure for the cost of this "21" day (put in at Lee's take out at Diamond) trip will be around $1400.00 dollars (high end estimate, last year it was $1350.00 per person) I stated $1350.00 in my initial email and I think we can keep it there but...

What is provided for the money? I will try to keep this brief and as simple as possible as I try to explain organization,costs and expectations. When you receive this email and have questions please communicate as much as possible using email to reply. If we do it this way; others as they join will be able to catch up (read past emails) and hopefully have questions answered for them.

What does the share cost cover? As of this time, a motel room for 2 nights (coming and going), secure parking for 21 days, Hualapai (Indian reservation) take out fees, NPS fees, 6 Avon Self Bailing boats, (1) 16' (5) 18' with all rigging and cargo setup (very nice boats and diamond plate drop in gear). Food for 16 people over 21 days (which includes buying, prep, and packing), kitchen (coolers,ice,pots and pans,spices,tables,stoves,propane,etc), groovers (toilets for 16 people during 21 days) and emptying and cleaning them, some sort of kitchen tarp (wing) for cover and for ground cloth, drinking water jugs and purification system, and other type of group gear as well as a satellite phone for emergencies. In addition, shuttle of all people and gear (butt load) from Flagstaff to put in, help with rigging and pick up at take out. The shuttle is one of the more expensive items but necessary. Many of you can't imagine how much gear there is to move both ways as well as people. The shuttle costs could run the price up further if gas keeps rising. In fact, costs rising between now and launch date "could" change each person's shared cost upward. If you choose to drive your own vehicle to the ramp (Lee's Ferry) you will be responsible for your own car shuttle fees and/or parking in addition to per person trip cost.

Also, we will meet the day of Sept 14th (all of us!) in Flagstaff AZ. Plan on it, it has to be that way. Early the morning of the 15th all of us will be picked up and taken to Lee's ferry by our shuttle service. We will spend the whole day (the whole day and most of the night) getting rigged and ready for inspection by the "River Rangers" which we have to pass or we don't go anywhere! If all goes as planned we should be launched and on the river by late morning of the 16th. Getting up to the launch point and launching is the hardest part of the trip. Things have to happen in specific order and under the bureaucratic system of the National Park Service. During this period time is of the essence!

So, part of the share cost will include a room at a Flagstaff motel both before and after trip which will be convenient for all to get to, it is walking distance to food and drink, and a place we can leave a small amount of luggage which won't be needed on the trip (clean clothes to return home with) and other items. We will return to the same motel the night of 6th of Oct.(our take out day) and will have a room waiting for us. There will be two people to a room and we will have 8 rooms for start and finish of trip. Please remember, you have to be in Flagstaff on the 14th of Sept, please try and arrive as early in the afternoon as possible because there will be time needed to pack personal gear and separate out what isn't needed for the trip. Last minute shopping can be done on the 15th in Flagstaff. Remember, if you want goodies, alcohol (beer,wine,liquor) special personal treats or other things you will have to buy it and figure a way to pack it. We will talk about that later!

I know you may have other questions but these are the basics. It is up to you to get to and from Flag. Group food starts the morning of the 16th and will end the afternoon of the 6th. Once we leave Flag there is a Navajo small store and Cafe and a nearby in the middle of the 'Cliffs" restaurant that we will have our evening meal at on the 15th for those who want to. We will talk about all this extra stuff after you join the team.

I need to hear from you if you are interested and if you want to commit. Committing means sending $800.00 now ($300.00 of which is non refundable if you change your mind) the remaining $550.00 will be due Sept 1st.

If you have further questions email me and I will try to answer them. However, you pretty much have all the info. Make a decision quickly and let me know. If all is OK, then send check to [EDIT]. Once you have notified me and I have your check I will add you to our group email and you can ask any questions of the group and vice versa.

If you decide to go I will put you in touch with the person you are sharing a boat with. I think boat mates should talk early. If a male has any trouble riding with a female or a female has any problems riding with a male please don't apply. We are going to be a very close group living together for 21 days and we will all learn about each other and probably more than any of us want to know.

Again thanks for your interest and let me know soon!
Safe Adventures;
Expedition Leader
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Old 08-06-2009   #115
lhowemt's Avatar
at my house, Montana
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,347
For fully turn key and more (room b4 and after and storage in flag), it isn't too far off. Maybe a bit high, but those painless privates can easily run $1200. Add in the hualapai fees, hotel, sat phone, etc, and it adds up quick. People can do it for a lot less (I did $650 last year), but it's a lot of work and requires the people to already own most or all of the gear. No rentals, food, permit, and shuttle only.

FWIW, I saw that guys post on that forum, and he seems a bit harsh. I hate to imagine what he's like on the river, but you can just never tell. Talk to him, talk to others on the trip, weird things happen down there so do what you can to make sure you'll be comfortable, and as safe as you want to be. If you want to row a boat, make sure you have one of your own or you'll never "have" a boat (boatmen/women get pretty protective of their "home") and just end up rowing when others want a break.

Good luck, be safe, and have fun. At least he sounds organized and no wishy washy shit.

Oh yeah, and cats are easy, way easier than rafts. Unless they are pig loaded.
I am a river, babe - I've got plenty of time, I don't know where I'm going, I'm just following the lines..... - "We are water" by Shaye
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Old 08-06-2009   #116
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,933
Doesn't seem out of the ordinary from what I have found (planning logistics for first trip this winter). Renting gear for a 21+ day expedition is not cheap.


GCNP: $100 pp
Boat: $1000+ per boat, plus rental equipment (boxes, etc)
Diamond Creek Fee: $65 pp, per car, per trailer, inlcuding shuttle drivers
Food: Not cheap, likely $15-20 pp/per day outfitted this way

I don't think you are getting ripped off. For a fully outfitted trips, including hotels, that seems fair. May seem like alot from a passenger standpoint, but the time and energy one puts into such a trip as a trip leader you realize how big the bill can get in a hurry.

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Old 08-06-2009   #117
castle rock, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 203
The way he is setting it up It sounds about right.
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Old 08-06-2009   #118
southeast, South Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6
Hilarious thread.

I got a spot on a GC trip this summer from a posting I read on this forum. Knew nobody else going prior to the trip, and the permit holder graciously took my word I could row a raft. We all met in Flag and the outfitter took care of the rest. We had a blast, and I would go again with the same group.

The plan and costs you just listed are right on. Talk on the phone, you will know in a few minutes if everything checks out. One difference in my recent trip was we all paid the outfitter directly, eliminating the variables of sending a big check to a stranger. Not that this way is unusual, my first GC trip everybody paid the permit holder directly.

One more thing, I didn't find it that hard to get a spot this year so you can be a little picky. I turned down one offer because I didn't have confidence in the group's planning abilities. They trip you're looking at doesn't seem to have that problem from what you've shown us.

Good luck with it all.
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Old 08-06-2009   #119
GoodTimes's Avatar
Eagle, Idaho
Paddling Since: '78
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 794
That price isn't out of line for a fully outfitted private trip....the TL can shop around....but they won't differ much for the entire, food, camp gear, etc....
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Old 08-07-2009   #120
raftus's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
I went last year with Moenkopi, 13 people , 16 days, it was $1150. Add in the extra days, motel nights and a couple more boats than we rented and you are right on.

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