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Old 02-14-2007   #11
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883

The fact you have named an alternate may not solve the problem completely, particularly if you are there at the Ferry for launch.

What if they take the position that since you're going on the trip, you must be the TL, and you must stay on the whole trip?

That's the question I'm waiting to get an answer for. Hate for you to show up and get in a fix that could have been avoided somehow.



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Old 02-14-2007   #12
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 151
i initially got the permit, and was the tl.
when i realized that i had some other things that might not let me make the trip at all, i designated an alternate tl...all the paperwork is filed, etc. and as far as the gc is concerned, i am no longer the tl...

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Old 02-14-2007   #13
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

In any event, I just got off the phone with the River Office, and for anyone tracking this thread for an answer to this little niche question, here it is. Once the permit is passed off to the alternate, the original permit holder still can go on the trip -- either a partial or full trip. That's the sensible answer, but it's always nice to be sure.

I think the thing on the photography is that either way, you have a very ample set of choices. Try to have a good idea of some special places in advance, or have someone on the trip who knows the Canyon well enough to steer you to the right spots. But early morning and late in the day the light down there is incredible. Even the most ordinary-looking spots can provide fantastic pictures. I'm sure you'll do fine either way.

Best to you.

Rich Phillips
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Old 02-14-2007   #14
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 151
thanks rich.
your efforts to call the office and double check on policy are extraordinary, and are appreciated.
furthermore, the attention to detail, and the notion that logic should prevail by rangers throughout this process has been unreal- and should be given props.
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Old 02-14-2007   #15
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883
Thanks. GCPBA is trying to keep up with this stuff, and help folks learn and use the new system. And so that entails a lot of learning for us as well.

I would add a couple of things. I wasn't worried that the rangers would be illogical, but rather, that if confronted with a possibly novel situation under the new regulations, they would interpret them literally. That's sort of a safe haven in human nature when you're in a decision-making role -- go with the plain language in front of you. And because I wasn't sure how the actual regulations were worded, there was a small chance for a glitch.

Fact is, I've been dealing with the head GC river ranger (Mike McGinnis), a key river planner (Linda Jalbert), and the head of the River Office (Steve Sullivan) on these issues for some time now. They are all competent people who are heavily invested in making this new system work for private boaters. GCPBA board members meet with them on a periodic basis and talk face-to-face about the things we and the Park think are important. Topics for our next meeting include discussing CRMP implementation issues such as this.

These folks are always willing to listen -- whether it's in those meetings, or by phone or email. We don't always agree on things, but they are anything but illogical or arbitrary. That gives me a lot of confidence for the way this new program is going to work out over time.

Off the soapbox. Have a great trip and be sure to share some of those pictures around...

Rich Phillips

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